Need some measurements.

[JR4 Motorsports]

OK,
I have to do some front end reconstruction on my '65 Coupe. Frame rail, fender aprons, etc...Basically some rust/rot repair. From the drawing I have, see attached drawing. I have the distance from the front of the rails, from the lower control arm pivot bolts, and from the rear of the rails. What I am looking for is the distance betweer the shock towers. If I had the distance between the engine mounting bolts, that would be great. I could make a jig to keep it all square while I remove and replace sheetmetal and frame rails.

Thanks all

Rusty

 

[ponyboy289]

Hey,
I can do this if you would like? Also keep in mind there's that guy with all of those early Mustangs sitting around(Me) that you can always go and take measurements from in person,if that would help? As far as a Jig what about installing an export brace and monte carlo bar for while you're doing the work? Since you're building a race car,you'll probably want to use these pieces anyway to stiffen up the front? I know that will only help on the top side,But I figure it can't hurt?
As far as a jig were you looking to build something that bolts or welds to the engine attaching bolt holes? I've got a 66 v8 Coupe sitting over here with no engine in it,(My race car)if you ever wanted to come by perhaps we could collaberate on a jig? It would help because I'd borrow it from you when you are done as I am going to replace a front rail on a different car one of these days.Is you car all apart at this point(did you already cut out your metal?) So what parts are you looking to replace exactly?Are you doing both full length front frame rails? I've also got a bunch of new replacement metal over here (new front frame rails,etc.) As well as original front fram rail/panel assemblies,and original shock towers that have come out of parts cars.

 

[JR4 Motorsports]

Hey,
I can do this if you would like? Also keep in mind there's that guy with all of those early Mustangs sitting around that you can always go and take measurements from in person,if that would help? As far as a Jig what about installing an export brace and monte carlo bar for while you're doing the work? Since you're building a race car,you'll probably want to use these pieces anyway to stiffen up the front? So what parts are you looking to replace exactly?Are you doing both full length front frame rails?

You can get measurements? or do the work? I will probably do the work myself, however I am lacking the measurements Who is this guy with all these Mustangs Do you have any with the motor out? I may have to stop by once it warms up a little, last weekend was brutal. We were in the middle of a bedroom renovation for our first little one. Room was gutted to the studs,windows OUT, and new sheetrock going up. It had really old paneling glued to the old sheetrock. It was probablly 20° in the room. Anyway... I do have the Export brace, and Monte carlo bar, and I had to push out the towers about an inch at the top just to get the export brace to drop in, and it was still under a lot of tension, and probably flexed a little. Even the Monte Carlo bar was tought to get in. The towers are in decent shape, however the frames are pretty rough, and you know what that means.

Rusty

 

[JR4 Motorsports]

I think you were editing as I was writing my reply, so let me add some.

Yes Export brace and Monte Carlo bar will go in.
Yes, bolt on completely, no welding to the car, but the brace is welded construction.
No problem with helping and borrowing.
A 66 v8 car would work.
My car is pretty much gutted, no drivers floor, driver's rear frame rail is almost out. Firewall will come out at some point.
I need to asses the front frames a little more, but I am thinking by time I fix front part, and under the shock tower, it would be easier to do full inner and outer front frames (I tried to find a new shell, with less rust, but in this area you know what that is like )
I might have to take a look at what you have as used parts for this. Any available time?
Rusty

 

[ponyboy289]

Congrats, You're expecting your first,good stuff. As far as all the cars laying around I was talking about me.I figure if you need measeurements want to try fitting things etc? I have a 66 V8 Notch back former race car,That's sitting over here with a gutted interior,no engine,etc. If you want to look/take measurements? If you want to make a brace/jig for front frame rail replacement,I'd be interested,Like I said I'd like to borrow it when you're done? A rust free shell is always the best way to go,I thought about doing that on my 66 Red coupe(First car),The one I would borrow the jig for.I'm so attached to this car that I have to fix it.I discussed rebodying it to a clean shell,and everyone told me it wouldn't be the same car,So that's that.It's sitting right now because I have too much other stuff going on and it has rust in alot of spots most are not terminal,but the drivers front rail is roached to the point of unsafe.As far as parts I do have alot of stuff,I have some shock towers off of parts cars,I also have brand new repo full length frame rails(The heavy gauge ones),etc.

P.S. I was editing while you were replying.We can definately set something up? I'm around most of the time(This coming weekend is not good),Waiting until it gets warmer is fine with me,so is coming when it's freezing winter projects have to get done,right?


Another thought,Here I go editing,again.I have seen some cars with non existant front rails and the shock towers were still good/saveable.

 

[JR4 Motorsports]

I knew it was you with the cars.
Thanks for the congrats, it will be an adventure.
I would love to get over and measure, someday. Probably not in January. the room we are revonating..... all the contents are now in the living room, with almost zero space to move. So that has 100% of my at home time occupied until we get to at least the painting stage. Hopefull early February.
In the meantime I will post up some pictures I took a while ago of the areas that are rotted. Not really pretty. MOst of the shock tower is good, the bottom 2" or so is gone, but not the engine support 'beam' pictures will show, I'll try to get them up tonight or tomorrow.

Rusty

 

[JR4 Motorsports]

OK A few pictures

 

[ponyboy289]

Interesting, Sometimes it's really tough looking at photos(Love the photos,post more if you have them?).On the drivers side how does the rail look down around the steering box? Unfortunately there were some crush sleeves in the frame where the steering box mounting box bolts passed through and over time they acted as a dam.

As for the shock towers it almost looks like it could go either way? They sell the lower patch piece which is really for beefing up the inner part a few of my cars have this.Then you could fix up the engine compartment side with some size for size pieces?

So you were thinking of doing both front rails and patching the shock towers? Or were you going to do only one rail,one tower ,etc.? What were your long term goals with the car,I knwo we've talked in brief about it,Were you building a track only car or a streetable racecar?

Regardless of which way you are going in terms of metal replacement Keep in mind what I said about having some (alot) replacement metal parts around. And you can definately swing by here at some point or several points if you need to crawl around a car to measure or see how things go.

 

[JR4 Motorsports]

Yeah, the pictures are interesting. I have a whole series of pictures, just on the frame and bodywork. BUT it is on my desktop, which is not setup right now. I had to take those pictures yesterday just to post them. When I get the bedroom back together I'll have a bunch more.

The frame near the steering gear looks ok, it's bad under the floors though.

The towers could go either way, but I figured I would be adding the reinforcement panels anyway, so maybe patching the lower part of the tower, and the reinforcements would be plenty of support. BUT I am keeping options open and something like this (first picture) but at $500+ each side, that is a lot of cash!

It looks like both sides will have to be done. But one side at a time. That's where the Jig comes into play, And where measurements come into play. The coupe you have, is it solid and straight? I think you also mentioned some originals that you had. Once I get cutting I will know more.

 

[ponyboy289]

Hey,
I hear what you're saying,I wouldn't do the compartment sides. I figure you will go into the rails when you go to change them and you will be able to get a better picture on the shock towers at that time.The coupe that I have appears to be straight? It's not a perfect rust free car,none of mine are but like I said I have several to look at and measure,it's just that this one has no engine in it,nor will it for a while. That said I wouldn't sweat the floor support rail they go bad pretty frequently. So were you building this car as a race car? Or a street car? You might want to consider adding front torque boxes when you cut all of that metal out?

 

[JR4 Motorsports]

Oh, I forgot. Street legal.... Road race car. And I mean barely street legal. At least that is the goal. it will probably get to the streel legal part before it gets to the race car part

Compartment sides?? Do you mean Inner fender aprons?? Yeah, those will be last to get fixed up front, but I think I will need them in place to get everything lined up.

I already have new floor supports, but I think the rust went through the floor suports, and into the frame rail inside of it.

I plan on putting inthe torque boxes, along with some other stuff that I see a few more people are trying to do. i post up some pictures of that once I get the other computer back up and running. Maybe I'll just hook it up real quick to pull the pictures off.

 

[ponyboy289]

The pictures that you posted are what I call sides. My thought at least for myself is if the original fender aprons are repairable ,I leave them.The only engine compartment piece that I usually change is the battery tray area.I hear you on the street legal bit,eventually I'm going to get my race car back together again,It's going to be barely street legal as well.It doesn't make much (or any) sense to me at this point to have a track only car. Aside from the torque boxes what other types of stuff do you have planned for the car?

 

[Mike65]

Fortunately on my wifes 65 Fastback I didnt have to replace any frame pieces, just repair a small rot spot on the inner l/s front rail, but it needed full floors both sides & the cowl replaced. Just have the truck to go.