08 GT - cams etc.. help with mods

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VistaGT87

Member
#1
#1
Hey all, I'm new to the NY stang scene. I'm wondering if any of you could help with feedback and opinions with the mods I plan to put together for my GT.


I know i know... use the search.. but I have certain goals

I want to make my DD GT more of a pleasure to drive, and keep it pretty close to factory stock.....;).... And I want it to pass inspection regardless (even though my father has his own shop and we pass our own inspections lol)..


...and I'd also like to BLOW AWAY a stock E92 M3.. They're about 200ibs heavier than 05-09 coupes, make around 360rwhp.. but they put around a flat 250 ft-ib's from 3000-7500 rpms....

so they're quick... but we have them on torque.. and torque is what makes cars M.O.V.E.!!!


Anyway... So far I've only got flowmasters (817410), and I'm keeping them..

I want to use:
Stock intake
remove CMCV plates
C&L Racer CAI
either OEM exhaust manifolds, OR JBA shorties (keeping stock cats)


But I'm concerned about cams mostly.. I want an NSR cam that will provide the best drivability, with a good and healthy idle.. as well as, along with a good tune, pass inspection


So far I like the FRPP hotrods and the BBR stage 1 cams..

However, I feel that I might lean towards the BBR's since it has less valve overlap... and a little less duration on the exhaust..

Hotrods: 221/240 @ .050 duration - .472/.472" valve lift - 110 LSA.. (I know these will sound VERY GOOD at the right RPM idle.. but maybe too wide with lobe separation... possibly better for high rpm with headers and the FRPP intake.. but I could be wrong

BBR Stage 1: 227/233 @ .050 duration - .480/.480 valve lift - 114 LSA (these might be best for low-mid range, with some good top end)

stock cams (comparison) - 196/221 @ .050 - .432/.432" valve lift - 115 LSA


Who has experience with these cams? Drivability, tuning issues? Longevity? trouble codes?.... passing inspection? lol


Feedback and opinions would be greatly apprectiated :D
 
Quick281

Quick281

Member Plus
#2
#2
i went with comp thumprs... driveability went to hell but it passes inspection with no issues. close to 40k with the cams. havent had a single engine problem.
 
W

Wicked One

Super Moderator / Member Plus / Formally Wicked Xt
Staff member
NYM Staff
#4
#4
Both are similar, but for sound you cannot beat the mutha thumpers or the frpp hot rods. These are both good N/A nsr (no springs required) cams. What are you final goals?? if you are gonna go with a supercharger in the future, these are not the best cams for you, if not, knock yourself out and go for the sound and roughly 30 hp with the right tune.

Also, keep in mind that with either one of those cams (Thumpers or hot rods) you will need phaser lockouts, not limiters. Without them you are going to wreck your motor with piston to valve contact.

Ask all questions. We are here to help.
 
V

VistaGT87

Member
#5
#5
I spoke with Blowby Racing today, and I feel like I'm going to go with their Stage 1 cams.. I think they'll be best with my application.. I want this to make good overall power with a nice idle (and without having the engine "trying" to idle and rock the car like a seesaw)...


Wicked X, you're absolutely right about the thumprs and hotrods.. but i dont think the hotrods really need lockouts or limiters.. i could be wrong.. although since they have such a tight LSA (109 vs 110).. it might be safer, but too much of a rough idle doesn't mean it's going to make "good" or "more" power... but of course, depending upon application!




but anyway, back on track.. BBR said that I can still use factory VCT without limiters or lockouts, and of course stock valve springs... and with their tune, stock intake with CMCV deletes, stock exhaust manifolds with cats (though O/R will make 10-15hp more), C&L racer CAI, 3.73's... and drag radials (and most likely with tubular LCA's)... i could probably get my car into the 11.9's with great overall driveability!



My application, I want this to be almost a complete sleeper when in a parked spot..... but a mysterious beast from when you start it up, to when you take it to the track... and especially reliable... as long as I take care of the car that is lol ... M3 killer


and even though there are alot of articles regarding dyno's and ET's, etc... I've found a few really good sources that helped me make this decision...

1st thing... check this out..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lSo3oMuyg8&list=FL-GJ77ratU3siCSEEvf4Jzg&index=1&feature=plpp_video]My N/A 07 GT 4.6 3v 5-speed with just a few bolt-on's run's a 12.37@111mph with 3.31 gears - YouTube[/ame]

It's a basically stock longblock (especially cams), with a JLT CAI w/ tune (of course), O/R mid-pipe, stock exhaust manifolds, drag radials on 15" wheels with skinnies up front, billet lower control arms from UPR... and stock 3.31's..... it went 12.3 @ 111 mph


..probably a good driver who knows where to launch and shift too... but SERIOUSLY?!!! it's very impressive for a bone stock engine w/ minor mods



and then there's a dyno

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hje5ulnEBN0&feature=related]Chris K's 2007 Mustang GT on Dyno at Blow By Racing (BBR) - YouTube[/ame]

and I'm pretty sure, after all the dyno research I've done... this has to be a mustang dyno.. therefor most likely delivering hp #'s lower than what a dyno jet will produce... and even though a dyno test is not a real 1/4 test... you still learn something from it


There was a recent article in a mustang mag, BBR stage 1's made a 2010 GT make a 13 flat pass w/ a JLT CAI, stock exhaust and cats.. but I don't think they said which gears and if it was an auto or stick... I believe it can do about a second quicker, especially with a stick, or auto with a high stall converter... altitude, weather, driver also are all variables as well




... I talk to much lol.. But I think I figured out the answers to my own questions
 
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VistaGT87

Member
#7
#7
then again.. still doing some research...and after all that i said.. I might even bite the bullet and get hotrods for the hell of it... people still claim to make around 320-350 to the wheels depending on who tunes... Chris Rose from Bama is supposed to have a good tune.. we shall see
 
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mustangirl02

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
If you want to go with a sleeper set up i suggest staying away from hot rod cams. they make little power but sound pretty bad ass. I usually recommend them to people who want that "lopey" sound
 
ford20

ford20

Member Plus
Staff member
NYM Staff
#10
#10
Anything with a .500 lift or higher need lockouts.

Your going to have to do a lot to get it into the 11s mostly weight reduction with the right suspension setup especially when running minimal bolt on mods.
 
V

VistaGT87

Member
#11
#11
"almost a complete sleeper" is what Im looking for.. so If at a stop light, I wouldn't mind a little shake and rumble lol


But it's a tough decision.. or maybe not..

Either one of these cams should be satisfying.. considering stock 3v head flow (not to be bench racing now).. but either should be pushing around 220 cfm through the intake.

And knowing these motors are pretty efficient.. I have no doubts I'll be pushing "close" to 400 hp at the crank regardless




..actually, does anybody with cams (especially hotrods) have issues with stinking up the place because of a bad tune?

I know carb motors, these EFI motors are of course an entirely different animal when it comes to cams... too bad 3v's can't handle a ghost cam tune........ coyote's.. PSHH..
 
V

VistaGT87

Member
#12
#12
i know for fact that if I put headers on, gutted the car, kept the driver seat and dash, tubular control arms, radiator support, adjustable shocks and struts, 4.56 gears with a spool and slicks..... I know it'll do deep 11's


But I don't want a race car... My father and I have already built 2... a 1972 mustang coupe with a healthy 393 cleveland.. sold that... Now we're almost finished with an 85 T-bird, with a 545 big block... should be running low 10's... maybe even a high 9.. but anyway



ANYWHERE in the 12's will make me happy for a daily driver honestly, like i said.. M3 killer
 
ford20

ford20

Member Plus
Staff member
NYM Staff
#13
#13
As far as tuning for the Hot Rod cams American Muscle has it spot on. From what I am told they do a shit ton of tunes with the Hot Rod cams and have perfected the tunes with them. A lot of people who run the Hot Rod cams have a few bolt ons, nothing serious and are looking for a nice HP bump with a mean sounding idle. The BBR Stage 1 cams are going to be better if you are going to be going down a FI route in the future. Don't get me wrong you cant really go wrong with either cam but the Hot Rods are better suited for the N/A application. You may also want to look into the Steeda UDP as they would free up some HP and on a N/A application almost everyone has some sort of UDP.

If you want to go mid 12s and IIRC the newer M3s run mid 12s stock you are going to need something like 3.73-4.10 gears in the back as the 3.31s just aren't going to cut it at all. as far as weight savings go you can get a BMR K-Member and a Steeda lightweight radiator support which would save around 40 or so pounds off of the nose of the car as well as looking into upgrading your suspension to get a better launch. Even doing a full rear seat delete on these cars meaning removing all the seats belts and fasteners would save around 30lbs or so. all the little things add up in the end.

Running 11s on a 3v is a high goal to set but with the right suspension and enough weight savings you can get the 60' that you are going to need to do it.
 
V

VistaGT87

Member
#14
#14
ford20... i like what you're telling me.. Im always changing my mind between the Hotrods and the BBR Stage 1's... But as long as the tune is spot on with good driveability, some nice gains in the mid-upper RPMs with the stock manifolds and cats... and without running so rich that it'll stink (like sulfur)

...I'm down.. indefinitely.. and I'm definitely swapping to 3.73/4.10... still debating.. either way, I'm gonna need wider tires for the street (looking into the SVT 2010 GT500 conv wheels, 255 front 285 rear)



I don't know about the k-member though, for racing it's absolutely worth it.. but for an everyday car that drives through queens and the city (bumpy roads) OFTEN... I don't want to risk anything... but the steeda radiator support should be good, I'd at least be able to keep the front sway bar


But UDP's.. I don't know if they're worth it.. wouldn't they slow down the water pump making my motor run a hotter?... plus, I'm considering the kicker plug and play system they put on shelby's (I know I can do better, but whatever it's double the RMS and should be TONS better than the crap speakers that come with the Shaker 500)... but wouldn't UDP's also slow down the alternator? Unless I can find one to put out more power
 
W

Wicked One

Super Moderator / Member Plus / Formally Wicked Xt
Staff member
NYM Staff
#16
#16
The bbr stage 1 will not give you the "cammed" sound like the hot rods or thumpers. I run the bbr stage 2, upgraded from the comp 127300. They sound awesome but do require lockouts and spring upgrades. All depends on the work you want to do.
Mid to low 12's is possible with cams, udps, exhaust and a good tune.
​
 
noclutch

noclutch

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
Well, over a month and plenty of good advice and wonder where you are on your election. I wished I got the detroit rockers as they do sound so nice as well as the others but I thought about the thumpers and asked myself if I wanted to keep the sleeper impression or not. I got the comp 127200 set and they provided me plenty of upper end breathing and with the 4.10s they do well. I have an auto but am still running the stock converter and that is holding me back but I know with a pair of drag radials and a 3800 stall converter I can clip 3 tenths or more off the 12.8-12.9s I am getting. The udp and cmdp were great and I do notice that the lights do dim and the fan and ac do slow down a bit at idle but 2 years without a problem.

I have lt's and stock mufflers that do make it sound nice.

The stock sleeper look is fun and when you catch a hot looking ride on the line it is fun to reel them in and walk by or just jump out and break their hearts.

Funny thing about sleepers though, the cameras don't point their way and they don't turn the heads while pulling in but they do get that respectful knowing sideways glance as you drive away.;)
 
V

VistaGT87

Member
#19
#19
Ok so... to who ever might still be reading this lol..

Haven't done cams yet.. but I've done a Steeda CAI with their elbow and a written tune that Dan from Realspeed gave me.. basically it's written off of previous dyno tunes and so far I'm happy with the improvement


I have been having a bit of an issue since I first got the car (used 2,600 miles at the time)... my speedo was off 5-10 depending on mph.. I now realize that this whole time I've had 3.73s in the rear... go figure lol


I still would like to do cams one day but.. still unsure which

Hotrods I like, a little worried about how much the car will shake.. If anybody is reading this, and you live on LI and have hotrods... May I see your car to debate whether I want it's rough idle or not?


If not hotrods, I'm looking into the comp 127200.. slight lopey idle yet makes about the same power as the hotrods... maybe a little better down low and not as much peak

but the comp 127050 I dont mind either... basically a sleeper cam with a little more intake duration and about .18" more lift i think - I could definitely see a much better low end improvement with not bad results at peak


all NSR cams are good choices honestly... except I don't want the thumpr or mutha thumpr... that 109 LSA is already too tight and too rough for the street

hotrods 100 lsa is about borderline for a DD



anybody with cams? let me know
 
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